Bad Beat or Something Shadier like a Bot?

I feel Like I was just done in at the hands of Postle with this one…but seriously, who the (expletive) re-raises preflop with this hand!?

This was at a $2.50/$5 NL Zone Table, so no reads on anyone as its all anonymous and you get a new group each hand.

Table Information
hero ($277.40) Small Blind
seat 1 ($629.83) Big Blind
seat 2 ($1,169.70)
villain ($639.67)
seat 4 ($1,074.03)
seat 5 ($686.19) Dealer

Dealt to hero
AcKc

Preflop (Pot:7.50)
seat 2 FOLD
villain RAISE $10
seat 4 CALL
seat 5 FOLD
hero RAISE $30
seat 1 FOLD
villain RAISE $50
seat 4 FOLD
hero CALL

Flop
3cJd2d

hero BET $55.50
villain RAISE $111
hero CALL

Turn
3cJd2dKs

hero ALL-IN $116.40
villain CALL

River
3cJd2dKs8c

Villain turns over 3s8h takes the $565.80 pot with 2 pair

5 Likes

I’d say it is a bad beat. The guy looks like a maniac player that plays extremely loose aggressive. You never know if the guy is super tilted from a previous hand, or if he is drunk, or misclicked preflop and didn’t want to fold postflop. When I’ve gotten really drunk or tilted I’ve done crazy plays like this. I highly doubt a bot would play that bad.

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Could be bot, but either way, its a bad beat. I had mine tonight with KK several times.

PS - made an additional deposit, and moved to 50nl. They are not as good as I thought they were. :wink:

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This isn’t how bots work. nobody can hack the the rng to see what cards are going to come in the future, that hasnt happened in any scam in poker and cannot be done. That guy was a fish who got lucky and you played your hand as bad as you possibly could.

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@meatball Do you play 500nl?

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bro this is super shady and in line with a theory I have about some possible cheating on the site. I play MTT but I am seeing the same type of shit. I am not some fish. I am MTT pro 10 years, and have been playing bovada MTT last 3 years high volume. I have noticed some super shady shit latley. I will pm you

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Hi @Nash2Cash

I’m sorry to hear of any frustration and I can assure you that we adhere to the industries top guidelines. If you would like to send me a PM of some examples, please feel free.

You can also post some hand examples here and we can go over them.

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Yeah, but wouldn’t a “maniac player” be the perfect “disguise” for a bot? Hyper aggression should be the norm for bots in fact. Why? Because it’s easier to get calls (and hero calls) that way. What is the purpose of a bot? To make money, right? What is the easiest way to get called by marginal hands and maximize value? Hyper aggression. If the bot knows your hand and the runout on top of that it is an amazing and unbeatable advantage because then he will easily know when to bet enough to make you fold your winning hands and when to bet enough to get max value when he’s got you crushed, and he will also know when to fold when you’ve got the nuts.

What is the easiest way to stack a tight player? Set him up on cooler situations where he’s already set up to lose, but he doesn’t know it. Especially if you know what the runout (flop, turn and river) will be and especially if you know the opponents hole cards.

Whether this is possible to know or has been done before or proved before is irrelevant. It is the internet. It is a computer. I’m sure hackers and CPU programmers can find a way to cheat on unregulated poker sites without being noticed. Why would they want to be noticed if they’re cheating? The ideal cheater would never get caught. To dismiss this possibility saying it’s never been done or proven or that it is impossible is heavily naive. As well as there is the possibility of the website collaborating with a few human players, giving them access to other player’s hole cards, and to the runouts. What some would call a house player. For example, like it happened to me in two different hands where I got stacked twice recently on a PLO8 table.

The hyper aggro player has been raising pot every hand whether in position or out of position, and cbetting huge on flops turns and rivers whether he hits or not. You’ve been missing flops with premium hands over and over again against this guy. You finally flop and NFD with a gutshot and backdoor low draw. He pots, you call, you miss the turn, he pots again, you call, you river nut flush, he rivers full house, game over. Against the looseness that this player had displayed already, you HAVE to call there. 100%. He had been betting similar or exactly the same line with absolute trash or air, and doing it hand after hand. Non-stop. There’s no folding to be done when you finally hit a decent hand against a player like this. He could be betting river with worse flushes, with rivered trips, with missed straight draws, etc. After getting stacked, I rebought, he raises, I pot 3bet, he calls, he flops non-nut low with a gutshot I flop two pair, I pot, he 3bets all in, I’m ahead, he turns a straight. Game over. Stacked again.

Yes it could have been just a human playing and excessively reckless hyper aggro style that bluffs excessively and just got very lucky cooler situations. But the fact that he’s already stacked me twice and has 4 times the table buy in while the rest of the players at the table are in the red (AKA losing) is very suspicious. The fact that he continually and consistently beats tight players by playing crap hands and binking gutshots, 2 outers, 4 outers and other forms of suckouts against sets, flushes, straights in spots where a fold should be easy is suspicious as well. Another suspicious thing is when players continually call your pot bets with marginal hands against your nut hands and always river the nuts against your former nuts. That is literally the easiest and best spot for someone to get value out of you. When you have the nuts on the flop and turn and get rivered after potting flop and turn, in many cases you’ll be pot commited depending on how big the pot has gotten and how much of your stack is already in by the turn. Yes, some of these things can happen sporadically or periodically against a human player that’s not cheating, what is suspicious is the amount of times it happens and how consistently or frequently it happens. Against a normal player it may happen a few times and sometimes two or three hands but against a cheating house player or a bot it would likely happen as if it was the norm.

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He played his hand as bad as he possibly could yet he went all in with the best hand and got rivered. If he would have played it as badly as he could, he would have checked the turn, seen an 8 on the river and called a shove in the river. Your comment is exaggerated and rude to say the least. It is also naive. How can you be so sure that RNG can’t be hacked? The “impossible” has been made possible again and again by man. What makes you think that no hacker or CPU programmer can modify the runouts without being noticed? What makes you think nobody is trying to? What proof do you have that it’s “impossible”? Have you tried it? After all, the idea about cheating is winning without getting the cheating part noticed or discovered.

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Seeing as how he min re-raised pre, it is possible that he misclicked/ pressed the enter button and then he was committed to trying to win the hand after.

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I started playing on Bodog back in 2007. Then made the move to Bovada when Bodog cut out US customers. When Bovada tried to go to a casino only I moved to Ignition. These are all skins of the same network and since I’ve started playing on this network in 2007 I’ve been burned by numerous sites. I used to play on Ultimate Bet also until they screwed over their players. I also played on Full Tilt till they froze player funds for three years. I also played on Lock poker till they ran off with all the player money. All of these sites screwing people has made me very wary of poker sites but in the last 15 years of playing on multiple different poker sites Bodog, Bovada, and Ignition haven’t ran off with my funds or not paid me. For that I give them credit and they have gained my trust. I don’t believe they would have a superuser looking at people’s hole cards to screw them over because It seems like way too big of a risk for a profitable site that has been around for over a decade. Could there be bots that players have playing for them? Possibly, but that is something every site is battling. I’ve seen posts like yours before and it comes across as the standard poker is rigged which if you go to 2P2 you can find a thread with tons of posts like it. Half the time it is standard bad beats that people just can’t accept, but quickly forget about all the bad beats they give to others. After playing poker for 15 years I have gone on ridiculous down swings and I have seen the most insane run of bad beats, but I also played plenty live and seen bad beats that if they happened online people would be saying it’s rigged. I’ve played plenty against insane and maniac players that have you scratching your head as to what the hell they are doing, but that’s part of the fun. If you have serious proof of wrong doing then I’m all ears, but your post comes across as the standard poker is rigged because you can’t handle bad beats and downswings.

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ricky I am with you man. When you are explaining though I think it is important to differentiate things. For example I think there is some type of superusing going on, like they know runouts, or what their hand will be by the river. for example in the hand above the guy somehow knows he will have 2 pair by the runout. I am not sure that he knows the specific runout, or that he knows the opponents cards, just that he knows the value (no pair, 1 pair. flush etc…) of his own cards.

When you say bot, I dont think that because it is a bot it has these capabilities. I do believe there are bots for sure, but they dont have any special superusing abilites or anything. They are just programmed to play good poker and can continuously play. I am very very concerned though that there is some type of leak in the RNG, or whatever it is to allow certain users (inside job, or outside job not sure) to know the value of their hand after the runout.

for example with my theory the superuser can still lose. (ex he has 97hh and knows he will have flush by river, but AKhh ends up winning)

I have been building my theory, and ideas as we go trying to decide what is happening and for now. This is what I think.

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A runitonce coach started a discussion on runitonce that he believes there is some cheating going on. This prompted other regulars to begin talking. They arent exactly sure what is going on, but that enough regualrs just think “something” is not organic. on twoplusttwo forum players are also quietly starting to talk beind the scenes. I would like to show you some hands. In a vacum you can just say yeh thats a fish…etc…but with some added info it almost is hard to deny something is not right.

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Here are a few hands from myself or friends. We only play MTT so this is a diff view of it. Please take all information into account and understand the player profile as a whole, along with some basic poker/mtt strategy . and think about my theory as you read (the player only knows what his starting hand will be when the hand is over (no pair, 2 pair, flush) the player does not know opponents cards.

Hand 1.


Ok so hand 1 this guy 3x HJ on 16bb, he is faced by a very very nutty looking 3b, and he decides to 4b shove with no fold equity and wolah.

-I continued to watch this player, and 20 min later he was down to 10 big blinds, and was on the button with AKo. UTG opens and HE FLATS AKo on button on 10bb (the same guy who 4b 52s with no fold equity). Why would he flat? Oh because the flop brought Axx.
-this player was playing 24/21 over the 28 hands. (solid stats, not indictiave of such bad spew)

Example 2


-so here this player is calling off his entire stack(although its 8bb, thats is a standard stack on ignition mtt and has plenty of play) with 6 high.
-in this example I know the board runs out a chop, but my theor y is he knows before hand his hand will be “straight”

ok sure some guy calls off his stack and hits board. BUT this is the same exact player in the next hand, which is about 15 min later

<img src=“https://i.ibb.co/FBCT5Wc/65step1.jpg” alt=“65step1” border=“0” />

-So here I open utg and this player reshoves next spot with 65o
-I want you to know the 3 hands prior to this hand, this player

  1. folded when folded to him on button
  2. folded when folded to him on cutoff
  3. folded when folded to him on cutoff(someone got moved so he was in cutoff 2 hands in a row)
    so this player had 3 prime spots to open shove, but he didnt take any and decided the 65o reshvoe versus UTG was a better spot.
    -in between these 2 hand were prob 25-30 hands and this player vpip 3 times( so hes not some maniac going off everyhand, not even vpiping)

These are 2 examples to just get the idea. In a vacuum each Hand history alone you can just say sure its a fish (even though the play is not standard)
but when you couple that with the several other details, and you understand poker, you have to think that there is SOMETHING going on. add that to all the regs who are having very suspicious results and intuition latley.

I play for a living online, have for 10 years. I dont want to even considdr this or think it is possible, but too many things are worrying me

EDIT, now my picutres i uploaded ar broken lnks, but they were working . Im just going to post links to the uploads here.

https://ibb.co/f9nVcn9
https://ibb.co/HG6gC6V
https://ibb.co/PwyDjwr

https://ibb.co/SP8WYbp
https://ibb.co/zZrP6LV

https://ibb.co/Zh7DBJv
https://ibb.co/mTmh11J

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Yeah man, I’ve never seen so many bad beats as ignition. Wether it’s bots or their algorithms are wack, either way something is way too fishy.

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yeah so i dont think you know what “Bots” are, what youre attempting to describe is called superusing

2 Likes

Does anyone else notice how often they get drawn out on, on this site? I’m not one to be a bad sport but it’s insane how often I lose on the river when im a huge favorite to win the hand

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Yes, for me it has been worse since late last year…I was telling someone else the other day that it was like one day everything changed. All the math, odds, strategies and hand ranges I study and used went out the window. Even some of the higher stakes streamers on certain video sharing platforms are noticing. I have been in contact with a couple of them and they mentioned to me that in their circle of higher stakes reg. players there is talk…they are noticing this as well and are warning to be cautious on Ignition/Bovada…they are having irregularities in their results and questioning why…something is off and I know it.

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I just basically stated the same thing in another topic section. I play live poker, both cash and tournaments, and have done well for myself these past few years. Usually, I can play a short stack getting a decent pot every 10 to 15 hands or so, etc. I played a lot of tournaments in the past few days because I had a day on the cash table where I was in the positive $150.00, yes, only $150.00. Since then, I could not really do much on neither cash nor tournament, which I know players can experience a cooler period, but my suspicions are the same as yours. Multiple, multiple hands where the all in player is 95% to win only to lose on the river. It seems to occur way more than you will ever see in live play. I saw so many pocket kings versus pocket aces situations. But the most noticeable thing is exactly what you are saying. For example, in one tournament I had pocket aces, my “hero” caller had 8h2h, when I went to raise the site froze up and ended up only letting me min raise because I went to hit the raise button again because nothing happened the first time and it auto min raised. Which ultimately would not have been that big of a deal. Mind you, I was playing super tight because I could not seem to get a playable hand. Anyway, there was one player that seemed to know the right hands to call and the right ones to fold. He was in the big blind thus hand, so I do not fault him for calling. I do not fully recall the flop, but he hit the low pair, two overs on the board. I bet, he calls. Turn is a brick, improves no one, I bet again, he calls. River is, you guessed it, the deuce. Thinking I am good I shove the rest of my measly stack, he of course calls. I know well enough that the way I played that hand even a newbie would know to fold. But, the most interesting part is he did this multiple times! Beating pocket kings with a 10, 3 offsuit, etc. At first I thought, maybe it is just a new lucky player getting lucky, but when I kept seeing this over and over in other tournaments, I think you may be on to something. It is enough for me to find a new site! Good luck to you!

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Hey Shortstack,
Just seen your reply…thanks for your thoughts on this subject. Good luck to you also! If you want to talk more about this please feel
free to Private Message me. Take care.

1 Like